In their own words

Editor’s note: Vince Graham and Robert Turner were interviewed separately. The following are quotes from those interviews on the subject of building human-scale communities. On the New Urbanism/TND Vince Graham: “We believe in TND, and we’re making money at it. We feel it is the right thing to do and the way to create a lot of value — aesthetic, economic, and social value.” Robert Turner: “Sometimes I think it is much easier developing the conventional way. But I believe in the New Urbanism, I’m living in it, and I realize it does work at the neighborhood level, and it has an inherent sense of security. With a gated community, you have to build a gatehouse, put a guard in it, and hire a full time security force. That is very expensive. If you want to do a quality development, the alternative to TND around here is the golf course community — and that is very expensive. Of those options, TND is the least expensive.” On other developers Vince Graham: “I can only speculate as to why other developers don’t think TND is profitable, but most have been doing things one way for their whole professional life, and it’s hard for them to change. Plus, one of the biggest challenges is the permitting and zoning. Development is risky as it is, and you have to be something of a zealot to do TND, and it is just too much for some people. ... We want to change the paradigm in the way places are built, so I guess you can call me (a zealot).” On buyers Robert Turner: “Buyers are more comfortable with conventional development, so TNDs are a harder sell. The houses typically cost a little more. A same size house with a porch is more expensive, but the porch is outdoor living space. So you must sell the value of having a porch. On a per square foot basis, the porches typically cost fifty to seventy percent of the cost of the inside of the house.” “People are willing to give up some of the grand spaces for a smaller house with better design — to a point. They still want a decent sized master bedroom, bath, and closet space. But they will forego the grand master suite and bath. So, they will give up something to live in a TND, but they won’t give up an internal space which is functional, and flowing, and open. They don’t want boxy rooms like those in old houses.” On streetscapes Vince Graham: “In addition to reducing the width of streets, the length of streets should be reduced. You need to create deflections to calm traffic. Less is more when it comes to setbacks. Trees are important, and I wouldn’t do sidewalks less than five feet wide. Also, you need diversity in street types. You don’t have the same dimensions of rooms in a house. In the same way, the spatial relationship in streetscapes — represented by the setback, the width, and the deflections — should be varied.” On design details Robert Turner: “Some of the important design details include vertical proportions on windows, higher pitched roofs, and porches that are eight feet deep at a minimum. Eaves should turn the corner. The main thing is to get the details drawn right in the first place. Doing it right is sometimes less expensive, like nice exposed rafter detailing on porches. In the old days, nobody had power tools. The level of craftsmanship was amazing, but they also had an understanding of simplicity. In the affordable houses back then, the details were done right, but they were very simple.” On development fundamentals: Vince Graham: “Just because you are doing TND doesn’t mean that you have to abandon the things that make any real estate project successful. The location, schools, and nature of the land are all important.” “The New Urbanism is intellectually and emotionally intriguing — but the same real estate and development principles apply as with other projects. Some people are so dedicated to the ideology, they become a hostage to the vision. You can forget that these other things are important.”